002 : Feeling Comfortable in the Uncomfortable

Uncomfortable. 
Unmotivated. 
Fearful. 
Annoyed. 
Words that are usually associated with negativity, are actually just opportunities to turn a situation around. 
We're constantly in a state of perfectionism - trying to show the world (and ourselves) we live these happy and carefree lives, but in reality, life ebbs and flows, and allowing ourselves that grace and permission to navigate the not-so-perfect days is also important. 

Ben Valdez is a Substance Use Disorder Professional (also known as an Addiction Treatment Counselor,) who spent some time talking about the importance of our feelings, giving ourselves permission to be vulnerable and uncomfortable when times get rough, and some helpful approaches to address those kind of situations. 

Here's our chat. 

RECORDED: April 3, 2020

EPISODE VIDEO VERSION: YouTube.ChooseYourAttitude.com

WARNING: DUE TO LANGUAGE AND SUBJECT MATTER, LISTENER DISCRETION IS ADVISED

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Transcript

Nicholas Strand:   0:04
welcome to choose your attitude. Create your Life, a podcast inspired by Brianna Os Strand, a superhuman, a hero who showed the world what it's like to live life to the fullest. Diagnosed at age three, she dragged around cystic fibrosis and later of pesky superbug, not letting anything get in the way of fulfilling a life. Some could only dream of a death sentence of age 13. She packed a full life legacy that her body just couldn't keep up with. After 29 years of life. In May 2017 her journey was over. But her legacy continues and is followed by many. Her widower and author of Loving Someone Who Is Dying lives off her inspiring story and hopes to help others live such a full and inspiring life. And is the energy behind this podcast in her own words. Choose your attitude, create your life. And now here's your host, Nicholas Strand. Okay, welcome to choose your attitude podcast Excited here, streaming at podcast that changed your attitude dot com. This episode is also I've got it set for video as well that you confined and subscribe to others at youtube dot your gratitude dot com and I want to welcome everybody. I'm excited. Toe have Ben Val Bez, a friend of mine who I actually met through Washington State F f A. Um he was an officer in 2008 to 2009 and actually had Brianna Ah, we were together. And, um, she was actually helping me with his team putting that team together. Um, he is now a counselor. A substance use disorder. Professional fancy. Um, so I wanted to ask you kind of do you remember? Kind of like some of your quick explanations or descriptions of remembering Brianna or anything like that idea?

Ben Valdez:   2:11
The one thing I remember about Brianna specifically is her laugh. Um, she was always laughing, and she was just, like, super fun and easy to talk to. Um, I felt Leon's and actually shoot. I remember her, and I think it was Brooke. They came toe Wenatchee, and I was chapter officer during that year. And I remember meeting them on that level a swell, and so I'm just instantly liked her. She didn't choose an awesome, awesome lady.

Nicholas Strand:   2:43
Um, could you notice when you saw her? Any of the fact that she kind of had this hidden disease, Or at the time, you had no idea?

Ben Valdez:   2:51
No, I had no clue. No clue whatsoever. I think she may have mentioned it, but the way that it was mentioned was just, like, so nonchalant about it, where it wasn't even like a focus.

Nicholas Strand:   3:04
That's how she usually operated. Um, So the book I wrote was about her and about grief, and I wanted to talk to you about that, Um, and kind of walking into Corona. Um, there's kind of some things that have kind of popped up. Um, as we've kind of processed through this, I saw a lot of, ah, on the social media. Um, in January and February is this stuff started to kind of hit? Um, you kind of saw a lot of anger. You kind of saw a lot of craziness. Um, and it got to a point where a lot of people were just, like, positive. Gotta be positive. Why is all this negative? Um, and kind of working through. I noticed, um, some kind of relations with grief. What's

Ben Valdez:   3:54
really interesting about grief and loss is its doesn't necessarily have to apply to apply to, like, the loss of a loved one. It could be like the loss of a lifestyle. It could be the loss of opportunity or the loss of a relationship. And, um, I agree with you in the fact that, like, it's really interesting to see, um, how people are responding to this pandemic right now because it is a loss of certain types of freedom that a lot of people have been taking for granted. And in that respect, like I could see that as being a very applicable to the grief and loss process regarding the loss of a loved one is all of a sudden that that person is gone. And, um, you know, we're facing similar situations,

Nicholas Strand:   4:48
so kind of like, uh in in this whole entire aspect we have all these freedoms and we're so used to being able to kind of share our freedoms. And all of a sudden all these freedoms are removed, um, helpless Incan unnecessarily able to control anything but almost in the same but backwards of somebody who might have cancer or somebody like Brianna, who had cystic fibrosis and there was no control. Um, right now we're kind of putting a spot where All those feelings are removed and those powers are removed. Um, they're always become helpless. In a

Ben Valdez:   5:37
way, what I find really interesting, too, is like in particular with Brianna and Justin. How this works with and what she had in her diagnosis is that in the stages of grief, the the end stage is acceptance. And so with her, I see her as being able to accept where she was at from the get go, and it put her in a position. Thio, um, actually be have some sort of peace, given the circumstances that she was in. And I think that, like a lot of the times, what people are facing right now is that they haven't fully accepted the reality of the situation. And then in that without accepting the reality of the situation, of course you're going to feel miserable because it's attempting to try and control things that are out of your control.

Nicholas Strand:   6:34
So, uh, que blur Ross? Is that your pants in Cuba?

Ben Valdez:   6:38
I think so. I can cross through the cave before

Nicholas Strand:   6:43
his grief cycle actually kind of follows exactly how we felt as this thing kind of progressed. Um, it starts with denial goes into anger goes into bargaining in depression and acceptance. Andi, I feel like we've almost That's exactly how we've we've progressed a TTE First there was the denial. Some people argued it. Some people had the science. Some people, you know, kind of went both ways. Um And then there's the anger where you had all these arguments, people in denial, but people who knew and then there was this kind of friction. Um, and then the bargaining comes into effect. Once you lose that freedom and you go inside, some people are like, Well, the science says we need to stay inside those that are trying to still that denial face saying, Well, if I could go outside for this, um, um and then the Depression side is kind of where we're all kind of slowly accepting the fact that we have to now remove all these freedoms on become uncomfortable and actually not bow down, but kind of, um, except the fact that this monster is kind of not winning, but is in control, right? Um and then the slowly part of acceptance where we all kind of push it off to the side a little bit and no longer want to hear it, because it's it's kind of that battle now, in between depression and acceptance

Ben Valdez:   8:16
and what's really what's really interesting. Just about the grief and loss process is people can jump and shift between stages at like the drop of a hat. It really depends on, like sometimes people can be in full acceptance and then all of a sudden go immediately back to a denial, depending on the situation in circumstance. And I think that a lot of people are in many difference, um, forms of the grief and loss process. And so it's really it's interesting to me, just from like looking at it at like a psychological aspect in sociological aspect is that, um, it really does start to highlight certain deficiencies in the human character, because if we're looking at um, and relying on external events to make us feel internally happy, all of a sudden right now is a prime example. Were deprived of a lot of external stimuli that can actually make us feel a certain way. And so, like I have been personally taking this as an opportunity for, like, self exploration and look looking internally to be in like Okay, like, how much of my relying on you know, very trivial and very superficial things to feel some type of a way and getting to that point where internally, you are happy with where you're at and who you are, and then it doesn't matter. What happens externally doesn't matter what happens around you. Is that because in internally or fine, you know, with my patients, I deal with that. A lot is they struggled a lot with the grief loss process and with whether it be lots of family members to death or some other illness. But they also lose a relationship with their substance. And so they experienced this type of disconnecting this fight to try and make something work when it just doesn't work that way.

Nicholas Strand:   10:19
I feel like I've seen a lot of this too, and kind of the the emotional standpoint of social media. Um, I've noticed with social media and texting in our world today, um ah, lot off what we've learned today, or kind of where we're at, is with social media and texting. Almost all our communication now is through text on through words. And so, unlike a phone call or a face time or even in person situation. I feel like all of a sudden we've all become brave to be able to say words that we necessarily wouldn't say if we're in person because all of the sun we would become responsible for that emotion that we've been cause on those people on Guy feel like right now we're kind of learning that exact thing is all of a son. Those emotions have become rial because we no longer can run away from them, right? Um and that is kind of in the same thing of grief. So like, for example, with losing Brianna of being able to embrace the reality that it's not a bad things she's gone, but her passing in that grief and being able to kind of keep that on the surface to kind of acknowledge that and not be afraid of it, Um, which is difficult but kind of in the same sense of what's happening now. Some of us hide it, and that's kind of that denials, part of pushing it away and part of getting past grief, would you agree? Is kind of keeping that out on the surface and being able to try to get to that, uh, acceptance part, um, but continually making sure that that's where you reside in your grief.

Ben Valdez:   12:10
No, absolutely. An essential part of the grief and loss process is to not suppress emotional pain. But to truly experience every emotion that you experience, a lot of the internal conflicts that people have are denying emotions or believing that you should feel a certain way when you don't feel that way in that moment. And the truth of the matter is, Is that the grief in Los process? Yeah, it is very easy to identify specific stages after the fact. But when you're in, when you're in that state and I'm going through those emotions, it's a roller coaster. It's all over the place. It's not uncommon for people to feel really happy one minute and extremely depressed the nets. Um, but it's it's normal to go through that roller coaster. It doesn't feel normal in the moment because those air emotions that we don't like, but truth of the matter is like that's the process and everybody's process is completely different and everybody's process is also equally okay. And so it doesn't really matter. Um, how people process it as long as they are processing it and instead of avoiding it and the way it looks tow each individual is completely different, so being

Nicholas Strand:   13:33
able to accept that everybody process it differently, and that way they process it is okay. But what's important about this is to be able to accept that state. Um, and would you also say that even the state of hiding it is okay, or is it important to constantly kind of analyze yourself and work towards that uncomfortable stage to be able to make that then and comfortable? I think

Ben Valdez:   14:05
it is extremely important for people to be uncomfortable, and I don't necessarily mean that I'm strictly in the grief and loss process. I just mean that in general, you know, being uncomfortable is a painful emotion. We don't like feeling it because we like the comfort zone. There's reason why it's called the comfort zone. Well, um, when we're uncomfortable, it sends signals to our body that something's not right. So we need to change in order to try and make that more comfortable. And so when we experience those feelings of discomfort like that's growing opportunities. Those air opportunities toe like, reflect on things and say I need to change in some way and then you d'oh! And then that's how people continue to grow. And can you continue to move forward and in relation to the grief and loss process? Staying stuck in a stage, especially the earlier stages of denial, anger, depression, depression is one of the later stages, but that one's just not a good place to stay. But when you're stuck in a stage, that's when I'm I believe that that's where people get a majority of their problems with not being able to process and deal with the grief because it comes down to avoidance avoidance of the actual pain surrounding the issue. I'm avoidance of the anger avoidance of the Depression, and then it leads out like really, really strange ways.

Nicholas Strand:   15:29
So I would kind of almost relate some of that to two ah kind of these inner battles, eh? So what we've kind of just summarizes is accepting. Everybody kind of does it differently and what's important, it's not so much being offended at the way they do it, but help everybody through it exactly in their own manner and either a helping yourself understand or by learning how other people are interacting through it to help yourself through it and kind of that interaction. And I think one thing to that kind of like connects. This is You see a lot of these people right now. Um, And when I say these people, I I feel like that was kind of offensive. I didn't mean it in that sense. But what I'm seeing is is, uh, a lot of people posting solid fact of the reality that we live in. And the response is why don't quiet way posting things that are happy. And I would say that they are happy and they're positive, Um, because their reality And I think that there's a connection there as well is that, um, things that are positive aren't so necessarily always happy. But yet they're more of the embracing that reality aspect. Would you agree?

Ben Valdez:   16:50
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of the times some of the best things for us to hear doesn't feel good when we hear it. But a lot of the times, that's how we learn and that's how we move forward is we have to um, all feedback that we get and feedback in general. I'm saying that very loosely, not just feedback in terms of like a conversation between two people, but feedback on the media about what's happening with Cove. It like that. All this kind of stuff that's happening. All of that is positive because it's giving us information and increasing awareness and increasing awareness about certain types of things that's always positive and whether or not we actually follow through with the information that's given us, that's on each one of us. But the feedback that we do get, yeah, it is positive. Um, it's giving us some type of direction as well as some type of just any type of direction toe look into and or evaluate. And so um, yeah, I agree with that statement. I do think it is positive.

Nicholas Strand:   17:55
So right now we're kind of consolidated into our find space. Um, there's levels of too much stimuli into that subject, but at the same time, it's important to continue Ah, continue on the subject and not bury it. Um, I know that normally our lives get super super busy. So when it's something, For example, when Brianna past and dealing with those type of things are constant. Live in motion helps sometimes hide those things. Um, and it makes it more difficult for us to approach them or acknowledge them, refined the time intentionally or unintentionally, to address these subjects. Um, but I feel like right now is one of those opportunities for us as families, friends, um, and close people to the people around us that are important to maybe start talking about these things and acknowledging those, um, and processing through them, um, as a group, and not only for the cohesiveness of community, but at the same time. Uh, for yourself.

Ben Valdez:   19:13
Yeah. No, I completely agree with that. Either that come wholeheartedly. It is super important, important for all of us in this time to truly, like, look at areas in our lives that are that we have been suppressing, or that we've been relying on all these other things to fill some void. And truth of the matter is, I mean, stuff life's gonna continue whether we want it to or not. And the way you respond to it is going to impact our experience. And so personally, I choose to experience the my life in a positive light. But that doesn't necessarily mean that being positive is avoidance. You know, being positive just in general is, um, a very healthy place to be. But it doesn't mean that people are avoiding the pain and voiding their reality of the situation. Um, it's just how you respond to it is the key, and it is important for everybody to process every emotion that they get. We we live in a in a society right now, where there's this false perception that every single one of us has to have it together 100% of the time and that that's unrealistic. That's not That's not even possible for anybody to do and then to have that expectation on ourselves, but also on other people. That's not fair to anybody. And so, you know, getting to that point where we as a society can truly admit our faults. But then I'm continue to process those painful emotions that were told to avoid that. We're told that we shouldn't experience, um when we can get to that coin like we're going to see in advance, it's gonna be and I'm not talking, um, you know, in terms of economic advance. I'm not saying that, but, I mean, personally, I think that each person would advance and actually become a lot happier internally with where they're at. You know,

Nicholas Strand:   21:18
I I found ah, the other day kind of looking where I kind of caught on to the grief part of what's happening. Um, when this all started, a lot of people I've talked to has talked about having a hard time to kind of find themselves because they're in this feeling of uncomfortable that they've never felt before. Um, and when it dawned on me about the grief Thio kind of get over that what I had realized is that I understand. I'm writing my book about Brianna, um, and also my mom who passed. And so these feelings have really been out for me on something that I constantly, I'm aware of in a constantly, um, are walking through. But what I realized is that that feeling all of the sun piled up with what's happening now. And so what was actually resisting me was actually the pain from that stuff as opposed to all this stuff. And so by saying that I'm connecting to What you're saying is well, is that not only is this time good to acknowledge an address the uncomfortable of where we are, but also address the pieces in her past that may be our still buried deep and finding that special someone or ourself and trying to acknowledge them and kind of bring them to the surface,

Ben Valdez:   22:54
Yeah, 100% if you're thinking of just I mean, since with Brianna and our both an FAA. So like if you pull out a weed like you don't just take the top of the weed off like you have to pull it out at the root And that's how you get rid of the problem. And the same thing works in any type of painful emotion that we have. We tend to get a hyper focus on all of these isolated incidents and isolated events as like okay, though this is the reason why I'm responding this way, and more often than not, that's just the straw that broke the camel's back. But there's a lot of other stuff on that. We don't necessarily address the way that we should, and it comes out and really weird ways, and it comes out of like very random times where some people will respond in a certain way and it doesn't fit the situation. And we're like, Why are you responding that to this? Because that's not really the case, and more often than not, that's not the reason why they're responding about that way. That's the focus of why they're responding. But that's not the true cause of it. And, yeah, like you said, it relates to a lot of under stuff underneath the surface that we have to like, start address when it's now, um, brought up again.

Nicholas Strand:   24:11
So So, for example, like the anger, That's kind of one of those stages of you know, that's Poppy. Now, when it's you're not expecting it to in other situations besides the actual underlying cause, Um, and so this is kind of one of those areas where is just bringing up some of the other triggers that you're you know, you're noticing, Um, in addition to this, I feel like that's a lot to kind of take on. And I know that, um, you know, take it in numbers, uh, are in stride, but because we've relieved ourselves or we removed ourselves from our no normal busy life. I feel like it gives us a good time to really focus, um, with a family member or or even, uh like a classroom, take baby steps. So maybe spend, like, 15 minutes to 30 minutes a day with your close one and kind of start communicating with this to kind of build forward. Would you agree with kind of the current? Um, and I could even see this go as far as planning some of the future of the scary topics of, like, death and will that I know that Brianna and I discussed and I'm not saying we're going to die. I'm just saying because we're at a point right now where we're able to slow our lives down, we're able to kind of focus and relax through some of these pieces to get a better feeling of that. Uncomfortable as opposed to when we're busy. It's a lot more difficult to feel that way.

Ben Valdez:   25:57
Yeah, well, and I think that, um, with the busy nous, we have so much, um, readily at our disposal to satisfy whatever need we need. Satisfied in the moment, You know, we have the ability to you know, we even go here, go there, go to the store, go to a movie. We have all these different distractions. And then now that those distractions air no longer evidence, we start seeing a lot of people having these responses. And it's interesting to me because a lot of people are experiencing these deep bouts with depression and this isolation and this loneliness and boredom. And all of this is creeping up. And truth of the matter is like you had mentioned before with the grief is you've always felt that way. You've just avoided it and you haven't addressed it and found other ways in order to manage it. There's so many other ways that we can manage a specific emotion effectively, but we just find one thing that works. And then we just rely on that to be successful from here on out, and then when that tool is no longer available, we have nothing. And then people get what's stuck in this in this chaos with these emotions, and then they don't know how to handle it. And then it comes out really weird ways, and I'm really toxic ways to some,

Nicholas Strand:   27:23
so I could I could almost on my last recording. I had I compared it kind of two football to where If if you've never played football and you want to go play, uh, you're uncomfortable, and so it's kind of scary to start, but once you've played a little bit, you have a little bit more confidence. Um, and then at the same time, it's the same way of you're uncomfortable. Putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation makes you helped build yourself to be better acknowledging those pieces. So win. And if the's things that life happens like this tragedy's trauma, we're able to then ah, be less in the panic or less in the ah, struggle and Maurine the understanding to be able to make it through a little bit more comfortably

Ben Valdez:   28:19
right. We become a lot more resilient. Thio life. We become a lot more capable. The handle life on life's terms. Life on life's terms is something that's very common in the addicted population, Um, and for myself, personally, I strive to consistently be in some form of uncomfortable ity. Um, being comfortable at all times for me is dangerous, you know that. That, to me, leads to complacency. and then boredom. And then I'm doing really weird things. And so is one of those things to be in this constant state of being uncomfortable because it's a constant state of growth and you're right. I think that the more that people address the things that are uncomfortable and continue Thio be uncomfortable. When something else happens to them, they're able to bounce back a lot quicker and change it. Change happens all the time. You know, changes. It's something that every single one of us has to deal with. The only problem with changes, people that resist it. If you resist change, it becomes extremely uncomfortable. But if you embrace change, it's a lot easier to handle. And so right now in the way that the state of things is in this country but also the world is it is a drastic change and it's a tragic change. But it's also something that if we're gonna continue to resist and fight it, it's gonna make it worse and emotionally, physically, all of it. And so accepting the situation I'm allows us to move on and in grief and loss, that's truly what it is is I'm getting too true acceptance. And then you're able to look back on the experience and it's not doesn't mean you won't feel sad, but it means that you can actually look at it differently and then appreciated for what it waas and then use it as a foundation for where you're at now,

Nicholas Strand:   30:12
almost a better understanding of your reality that you stand in absolutely yeah, as as opposed to being confused. So in change, Uh, or like you said, with the change, I I think one of the things to that kind of, uh is an issue or I don't call an issue. Um, but a ah um, a struggle people have is the feeling of control. Andi, I think that's kind of where we're at right now is, um not only is it a big change and the reality of what it is, but it's in having the ability to control when those feelings come out. So, for example, and a normal life were able to do those things of the movie, theater or stuff to control our feelings. But now all of a sudden, we're forced into a situation we're uncomfortable with, and we no longer have control. So almost some of it, too, is accepting or or realizing the world we stand in is something that a lot more than what our current feeling is trying to understand that and become more comfortable and familiar with that.

Ben Valdez:   31:33
Is it a lot of what we d'oh as a society is attempt to control things that are not in our control. And, um, when we focus on these things that are not in our control and we spend energy into trying to control these things, it increases stress responses. It increases anger, resentment, all these kinds of things. And realistically, the only thing that anybody has control over is themselves. Have you have zero control over anything that's outside of you. And so when we're looking at the way that we're feeling in certain situations, I firmly believe that the way we feel is a direct reflection of what we're doing and how we're thinking. And if we're doing something negative and we're thinking something negative, we're gonna feel something negative. It's just natural, but if we're doing things differently, thinking differently will likely have a different feeling. And I say it all the time with my patients. I'll ask them. You know, if you're if you're feeling this right now, what are you thinking about? What are you doing? And it's like they're saying, I'm feeling depressed. It's like, Well, I'm thinking that my life stocks and what are you doing? I'm laying in a dark room. Of course, you feel depressed. Of course, you feel sad. You're doing all these things and thinking these things that's supporting that emotion. And it's important to understand the distinction to between situationally appropriate, become feelings versus a continuous feeling of depression or anxiety. Whatever it ISS in this state right now, in the way that the world is, it is situationally appropriate for people to feel fear, to feel anxiety, to feel sadness, to feel boredom. It's it's that's normal, Um, but it doesn't have to be a regular thing, and it doesn't have to continue unless you legitimately choose for it to continue. But we we legitimately have that power thio change our thought process and do things differently.

Nicholas Strand:   33:41
But I would also have to put in there to that. That's the project. The overall project is to try to stay positive, but it's still healthy and good like you were saying to have those communications and be able to make sure that even the people listening. Uh, just because they're saying something negative, uh, that that's part of the process of them understanding their situation. So that way they can actually steer themselves into that positive atmosphere. And I see a lot of this Anne and myself. I know with Brianna in the control aspect my whole entire life, those 10 years that we were together as she was passing away, one of my biggest dresses was that simple thing control. Um, and that control was I had no control of her health. Um, we had no control of how fast it was going to go or whatever. And so there was times that I would try to fix that. Um, and now I've learned that that control is something that we don't have control over. And there's a bit of acceptance, But at the same time, you're one of my friends, close friends that's has dealt with me. But, um is also, after all this and and feeling those feelings is trying to talk through those feelings. So that way you can learn the present triggers. Um, so when you feel that you're able to overcome. So for example, I myself had that moment when I had five days after this whole shutdown happened where I just could not get on my feet. But then once I found that this was ah, lot of what I was feeling was grief oriented all of the sun. The next morning, I completely swamped over because I was realizing, Oh, that grief of Brianna, that grief of my mom being gone, I then had the ability to acknowledge that and go Oh, here's that piece. Um, to be able to work through it. A supposed to being confused. But it it took talking through it and figuring that out. Um, so I guess one of those things that we would come out right now is what are some things that you would suggest? Um uh, that we can do as a family or friends? Um, toe open up these discussions because I do know, like, especially death. I've said it before. And, um, uh, sex, drugs, stuff we learn in school death, we don't, um and that's one of those areas right now that I think we're touching, um, as well as we all are going to die where human, we're all going to die. And this has reminded us of that. Um and and I think one of the things that this is a good time for us. Well, that I think I've already stated is, um in addition to talking with your spouse or whatever to be ableto help, have better communication for your feelings. It's also may be a good time as you go through those feelings to discuss those topics that are difficult. So winning, if that trauma occurs, we're able to actually get through a little bit better. Um, and once again it's It's not something that we have to do all in one day baby steps. Just maybe something like, How do you feel today about this situation? And this is good to do with kids as well. Um, it's a big topic. We understand that, but it's good to discuss it.

Ben Valdez:   37:49
Oh, absolutely. I think that it's super important for people to be honest truly with whatever emotion they are experiencing. Um, and I think open it. We put up this front like we have to have our stuff together all the time, so when people ask us how we're doing. More often than not, people say I'm fine. Um, it's OK to say you're not fine in that moment. It's OK to say you're struggling and just vocalizing that actually reduces the pressure, and it actually gets people aware to keep you accountable. And so you know, here's why I feel depressed. Here's why I'm sad in this moment. Or here's why I'm struggling with this particular thing about this particular loss. Um, opening that kind of dialogue is extremely important. I'm being ableto honor truly what we are saying. So when people ask us how we're doing, um, I find myself doing it to saying I'm fine when I'm not fine and I'm making a conscious effort to say like I'm tired. I'm annoyed. Um, I'm angry. I'm sad. I'm happy, whatever it ISS. But, um, yeah, I do think that the families in particular and especially the younger the better. You know, raising generations to come have that mindset to be able to vocalize truly what they're feeling. I'm working in the in my field. It's so much of trying to figure out truly what a person's feeling because they're rarely honest with what they're truly feeling, and it's like I don't want to treat and or help a symptom of the root cause of the problem, which is the true emotion you're suppressing and whatever that ISS. And so, yeah, I do. I think it's extremely important for people to have that conversation and you talk about the reality of death and the reality of grief and roll and Moss, you know, we tend to operate under a fantasy land of that. Everything's gonna be great and we're gonna live the American dream and we're gonna have the job and the kids, whatever it is, we all have this perception, and it's talkto us at a very young age, and it's it's not accurate. You know it, it can be for some people, but for a majority of us, it's not. It doesn't go the way that we planned, and it's that portion where we get this fantasy life that we're not able to achieve, and then we go. How we respond to that is completely different, and it could be very damaging if we don't have any other skills. Like what you were saying about being able Thio talk it out work through it to be able to recognize the trigger. I think that's extremely important toe highlight to be able to recognize that when I'm feeling a certain way, that's a trigger from the grief I've experienced. And so I remember this from the time that I worked on it this other time and that coping still worked for me in this situation. Let me try it now and or if that doesn't work now, So what else can I do? You know, what other things can I do in order to help me through this and get through it? And in grief and loss in general, the important thing again is to honor the emotion you experience. Um, people experience it completely different. Some people laugh, some people cry. Some people get really angry hit stuff, whatever it is. And the way we express the emotion is specific to each individual. But it needs to happen. And it needs to be, um, okayed for that to happen. No, I'm told that No, you can't suppress that or you have to spread that because right now no, you can't do that.

Nicholas Strand:   41:41
When that When I lost Ah, Brianna and my mom. Both of those exact things happened with family. Um, if you look at some of the things that occurred, you could definitely put them as very mean or ah, hurtful. But like you said, um, the better understanding to understand that they weren't intentional. They were just the reaction of those people feeling uncomfortable in there, uh, processes of grief. And so those air where some of those anchors occurred, or sometimes things that they weren't really able to think clearly because they were stuck in that kind of environment. Um, but understanding those situations and sometimes reflecting back on that helps us move forward. And one of the things as you were saying, that, too, is we're constantly adjusting. So what you talked about yesterday is gonna adjust today. But the whole key of this is being able to continue talking about these subjects and not being afraid to communicate them. Um is key. And I know that's one thing that I'm struggling right now with people and meeting people is exactly like you said is, um usually they will come up and ask me how I'm doing, And that's usually a, uh, unintentional learned. Ah, culture that we've all been trained on, Um, and that's usually for them. They're not actually wanting to know. They may want to know, but they don't that that answer they may not be prepared for, and I've noticed on my own I've had to be careful on what I say because the way they act or the way they received that. And so that's one of those things of like you said though it is, I've tried both of those, but it's most important, like you said, to be honest off that. But what I found is kind of like that whole positive happy thing with social media or people just, you know, I want all the positives well, the happy. But it's more of the embracing of the reality. Um, and ah, I find that when ever I I share with somebody knew that I've met that these people have passed, Um, and it's a burden. I don't want to call it a burden because that's that's the wrong way to use it. But it's a challenge that I'm learning that isn't anybody's fault. It's just a culture that we're having to deal with because we're all in different stages. I've lost a few people, so I have a little bit more comfortable ity of that where some people don't. And so what? I guess when we say that whole discussion with other people is getting you comfortable in those areas, that we're all human and we're all gonna ah have these uncomfortable stages of death and grief. And so that helps us as a community get through those things. And and I think that's even right now going back to social media and how we've removed emotion because of texts because of social media. Um, and I think it's even more important right now to address that. So that way we can bring those emotions back and help us move forward. Um, because I feel like that we've kind of this is kind of a grown up Ah, grow up session for all of us to realize how much emotion we've removed and how much community or or the lack of control we have, um, in that reality on. And I think this is kind of one of those stages where I mean, it's if anything you can do to kind of like wake us up to realize some of these things. This is it, um, because we've really taken, you know, that orange peel and really killed those pieces off. And that's why all of us are just going crazy right now. Um, and some of that control, too, is we don't know how long this is gonna be. And that's a whole nother thing, too. Is that's a whole nother level of control. Well, win what? Focus on now and let's talk about now. Um,

Ben Valdez:   46:28
yeah. No, I completely agree. And I think that Woods, in my opinion, with everything that's happening right now, um, I think that a lot of the denial surrounding the losses that people experience is based out of fear. And it's which fear comes out really weird ways, just like anger does And, um, the fear of what's going to happen in the future and all of these other things. And we get so hyper focused on being stuck in quarantine for however long it's going to be. And truth of the matter is, is we none of us know how long it's gonna be ultimately cause this changes daily. I'm almost hourly. It changes, and so when we can get to that point where right now, What am I doing? How am I feeling? What am I thinking about? And am I good? Am I not good? If I'm not good, what do I need to do? And if I am good, what's working and so making to do? Having those inner dialogs is really important, because in this time we can still learn really valuable coping skills with many different things. And I firmly believe that this is a huge opportunity for people. But with your choose your attitude. I have a very similar mindset, and I've adopted that for quite some time, and it's taken a lot of practice. But truly it is an opportunity, you know, to look at these things and being able to have that conversation. And when we actually start addressing these painful emotions, it becomes easier to address them when they keep coming up in the future becomes easier to work through them and to process them quicker. It's a skill and any new skill. It takes practice, and the more you practice the behavior, the easier it becomes and the more ingrained it becomes. So that way, when you do experience a painful emotion in the future instead of suppressing it, you're comfortable with talking about it, and then you talk about it. You move, you work through it and then you move on. And so we this avoidance of all of these emotions, it's It's delaying the inevitable for things like this and when we all of a sudden don't have the opportunity to continue avoiding. And now we have no skills to cope.

Nicholas Strand:   48:57
I think, um, I think another point that I'm realizing, as you said, that, too, is, um because we're human and because we're constantly adjusting is there's never a solution. Rather, there's the understanding. Um, so as we better understand, we're able to adjust the situations. Um, and they bring everything to the table. Eso some things that I've learned is sometimes certain snacks that I crave will put me into You know, I understand. I'm in certain situations when those are or specific meds, Um, kind of put me into an emotional roller coaster,

Ben Valdez:   49:46
I think, in terms of, uh, in grief and loss in general. Um, I think that we, as a society want to make the person who's grieving feel better and or be okay, and that is the worst thing that somebody could. D'oh. Um, it's very rarely that we want to make the other person feel comfortable. What it is is we are uncomfortable because they're ex showing raw emotion, so I want them to stop. So that way I feel better. And that's the worst thing you could do to anybody that's grieving. You're you're stunting that process. You're telling them, Stop doing that because I'm uncomfortable. We don't necessarily think that consciously. It just becomes this ingrained behavior. It's like we see people crying. We give them tissue because we want them to stop crying. We've manipulated it to be a comfort, but truly it is a comfort for us, not necessarily for them. And I get furious actually, when I'm doing group sessions and people has tissues to other people that are crying. But no, they need to experience that emotion. They need to feel that pain. It makes it real and its star and a congee very damaging to the person

Nicholas Strand:   51:10
or even the person handing the tissue over him himself is going through that experience, and that's why it's important to communicate and create this because not only the person giving and sharing the information. Also, the receiver of the information is learning something and learning about themselves as well. No,

Ben Valdez:   51:29
absolutely. And it's it's really damaging to tell the other person that I know how you feel, and I believe I told you that before. And don't say that because you don't know how somebody feels like I don't know how you felt when you osprey Anna. I don't know how you felt when you lost your mom. I've lost people in my life. But that's nothing compared to the loss that you've experienced because I did not feel that pain. There's no way I could have cause that's specific to you. And so anybody that's going through that process, we don't know how they're feeling. And honestly, some of the best things you can do for anybody that screaming is to just physically be present and then help with whatever they need in that moment. And if you say I'm here, if you need me, you better be there. If they need you. You know it's not a false promise in that state.

Nicholas Strand:   52:28
I think that's a huge right there, too. Is, um, I would almost take that to a whole nother level, a swell of not only ah, be there when they need you. But one of the things I struggle with is almost everybody in the same kind of scenario of being comfortable is, everybody goes, Let me know if you need some help. Well, it's also kind of reciprocated in the fact of its important to actually reach out and remind them, Hey, I'm here right now as opposed to come get me when you need to, because most of the time that's the uncomfortableness of I'm too uncomfortable to say, too remote to keep entering that. All

Ben Valdez:   53:14
right, And there's very they're subtle ways that you can do that. You know, you don't necessarily have to have the same conversation, but just hey, how you doing? Or what would you do today? Just starting a dialogue? Because in the grief of moss process, people feel very alone and I'm very isolated and in pain. And so just knowing that there is an avenue and or someone else that they can reach out to if needed and regular reminders that that person's there is that is important, absolutely, and not forcing the conversation to talk about something. If the person is not ready to talk about that conversation, they will bring it up when they're ready. And if they do and you open the door and say that you will be there, then that's on you to be there. And so when that door is open and you're the one that opened it, you have to be prepared for following through with your end of the bargain. And in that respect, it opens up that dialogue with that individual toe where now we can talk about this. We can actually communicate that. I trust this person enough to be able to communicate about this painful emotion. And then that relationship continues to grow. And and I don't mean relationship in an intimate for him, but just relationship between a family member or friend. Or let's

Nicholas Strand:   54:40
call me, remember, Yeah,

Ben Valdez:   54:41
yeah, it could be anybody. And so it continues to be. It puts a relationship in a different level that a lot of people don't have with a lot of different people. And it is. It's one thing to be able to share a happy experience with another human being and have that happy relationship. But when you can actually process pain with people that you care about and then continue to work through it, that's truly when you meet people that will significantly impact your wife, the people that will stay with you through the worst, the good, all of it, because they proven that they will. And so it's important to understand that we have all these different emotions and we experienced all of them. None of us are exempt for, obviously, maybe associate. Yeah, it was one of those things, but I mean, it's true, though we have to be ableto have those conversations and move in that direction.

Nicholas Strand:   55:43
So So it's one of those things of having these communication pieces to work through our everybody from the receiver to the giver, but also at the same time, since a lot of us like to be the parent or like to like you said, fix things, Um, but more so being there as a listener in an acknowledge er of when somebody shares their feeling of being able to say yes, that feeling Israel, Um, but then at the same time, um, that reciprocation, sometimes from that person, is Ah, sometimes an attempt to make sure that they are okay or that that feeling is normal. And so, by accepting it, allows them to feel comfortable. But then when you try to father or parent, what happens is it makes them, and this is all unintentionally. This is all kind of the culture aspect, but it makes them feel like that feeling is not accurate when that our feelings are accurate. And so by acknowledging it and helping people through it and listening, Um, even if you don't understand and if you don't understand as the listener, it's good to talk through it and ask questions. So you, as a listener, can learn how to be a better listener and asking those questions to better feel and understand.

Ben Valdez:   57:12
And no, absolutely. And I think it's important to know, too, that when we're if we become, you made a really good point with the person reaching out to try and parent the other individual. Because also what that does is that sends a signal to the other person that this person can solve my problems because when this happened, the grief one away. And so what happens then in the future when that person can't solve the problems. Now I'm resentful. Or now I'm angry towards that individual. And it's very important to help people ask questions. You know, How's it going? What's working? What's not work on? What can I do? What do you need? Is there anything you know? And if nothing Okay, that's fine.

Nicholas Strand:   58:01
So you bring up a good point there. Two of, um, we then become dependent on that person for a feeling unintentionally because because they are trying to fix things, you walk away feeling better, and so you're actually not making yourself better. You're just by that connection with the other person. And so by an ableto have these communication. Now, mind you, like you said, is finding people that challenge you, but then at the same time, understand or or acknowledge you, Um, it is good, and that's not I think it's good to kind of decipher that of, um, uh, these people that listen. And if you find somebody, um, that helps you through that, Um, that's not a bad thing, But wearing it's bad as, for example, when people help you not acknowledge this stuff or, um, for example, if If, uh, there's a friend that you know will never ask you or doesn't want to talk about the bad things or an and, uh, you good to the movies all the time to take you away from that. Um, they're not going to be able to, uh, dig deep. Um, and so they sometimes take away from

Ben Valdez:   59:27
that. What it does is it It puts a band aid over an infection. And you don't fix an infection by putting a band aid like you fix an infection by scraping out the wound so we can heal properly. And, yeah, there will be a scar. But at the same time, it is a hurt anymore, and it's not as painful. You can look at it, remember the pain, but you don't feel that pain. And so that's a very common thing that happens, is being able to just put on this quick fix for a long term problem instead of actually addressing the actual problem and dealing with it Then. So that way you can move forward and then move in a different direction, and then when other events like, you know, something like this happens, you know, God forbid that happens again. But just in something where justice devastating even on an individual level, Um, you can remember from the learned mistakes that you made and or the learned helplessness that you have four and then just move on quicker, be ableto handle it and bounce back.

Nicholas Strand:   1:0:34
I think one thing ah, that that comes to mind with this as well is that, um, everything in our past no matter if it's we feel it's fixed or not, is always going to be present so much like, ah, the word he'll always makes me laugh, especially with, you know, with death and my mom and stuff like that. I get a lot of people that, uh, tell me you need to go he'll you know you need Well, you don't heal you. It never goes away. It's always it's always there. And so, um, getting it to a point that it heals, but you become comfortable. So when it does start to bleed again or it does become president in your able to acknowledge that and find that and be able to address it, um, productively,

Ben Valdez:   1:1:31
right where it's not just a brand new fresh wound anymore, and I think that's what a lot of people experience when they suppress grief is, um, it's still very raw because they don't work through it. At 10 years down the road, something happens, and then it brings up all these emotions and it's just extreme and it's it shouldn't be that extreme when we're working through stuff properly and or were able to respond better to those emotions. Um, yeah, it's normal to feel pain. It's a signal to our body to tell us that something is wrong and that's why we have to address it. And if we don't experience pain or continue to avoid it, it leads us tow, make really terrible decisions or harm ourselves even more, and not just physically but emotional pain. And in my opinion, emotional pain is so much harder than any type of physical pain that we can handle. It is easy to identify what part of our body is hurting, but when it's an emotion and we're not addressing inappropriately, it can stay hurting for a really long time.

Nicholas Strand:   1:2:51
I think I think one practice as we're talking about this, I keep going through of things to be able to address these different things. I think what's helpful on some of these discussions to be able to get to Ah, maybe subjects that are difficult to talk about, um that are actually between you and somebody else. Um, as opposed to subjects that air about you. Some of the good practices would be like, for example, talking to staff person about what would happen if trauma was to occur. Talk to that person. And when I say if traumas occur as a plan and the same thing for, like, a death or will those type of things and as you talk about those things, you become more comfortable. So then all of a sudden you're able to start acknowledging those feelings with the person you're talking with and able to start getting deeper, because now you've reached, ah, a subject unlevel playing ground, um, that to be able to work deeper into the emotion. Um, absolutely. I think that wraps it up. We got some pretty deep stuff here. Um, thank you for your time. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I appreciate all of it.

Ben Valdez:   1:4:16
I think we did cover a lot of really important things, and I think it's just very important. Honor the emotion you're experiencing, don't avoid it. It's normal to experience whatever emotion it ISS and being able to identify that. That is the emotion. Okay, what can we do? The work through it and then in when I say work through it, I mean work through it effectively, not through an effective choices but making processing the key, not drowning in substances, and not I'm joining in sex or whatever it is. It's literally being able to handle and process the emotion successfully. And then you learn that skill, and then it becomes and grain. And then in the future, you can become unstoppable. When it comes to those kinds of things you condone, there will be no limit.

Nicholas Strand:   1:5:13
You can create your life by choosing your attitude.

Ben Valdez:   1:5:16
That is correct.

Nicholas Strand:   1:5:17
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